Go Back   PROAZN.COM COMMUNITY: Asian Men and All Races of Women Coming Together > Appreciation for Asian Men and their Culture > Asian Culture & Customs > China Talk & Interaction


Members currently using Flashchat: 0
No one is currently using the chat.

Tags: , , ,

Reply
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 09:34 AM
mango girl's Avatar
Moderator
Points: 49,335, Level: 100
Points: 49,335, Level: 100 Points: 49,335, Level: 100 Points: 49,335, Level: 100
Level up: 2%, 0 Points needed
Level up: 2% Level up: 2% Level up: 2%
Activity: 75%
Activity: 75% Activity: 75% Activity: 75%
 
Chinese Zodiac Sign:
Zodiac Sign: Gemini
Join Date: Sep 2007
Ethnicity: white mutt
Location: NC
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,727
Cash: 50,715
Thanks: 127
Thanked 393 Times in 341 Posts
Blog Entries: 6
My Mood:
Rep Power: 3983
mango girl has a reputation beyond reputemango girl has a reputation beyond reputemango girl has a reputation beyond reputemango girl has a reputation beyond reputemango girl has a reputation beyond reputemango girl has a reputation beyond reputemango girl has a reputation beyond reputemango girl has a reputation beyond reputemango girl has a reputation beyond reputemango girl has a reputation beyond reputemango girl has a reputation beyond repute
Outline on the traditional Chinese family

This is an outline of a lecture from one of my professors in a sociology class based on the family. I'm not in this class, but I found the outline enlightening and interesting.

Quote:
THE TRADITIONAL FAMILY IN CHINA

Cartier, Michel. "China: the Family as a Relay of Government." In A History of the Family, ed. Andre Burguiere, Christiane Klapisch-Zuber, Martine Segalen, and Francoise Zonabend. Vol. 1. Cambridge: Harvard UP, 1996.


Freedman, Maurice, ed. Family and Kinship in Chinese Society.

Stanford: Stanford UP, 1970. [ncsu HQ 667 F3]


Verdon, Michael. "The Stem Family: Toward a General Theory." In The American Family in Social-Historical Perspective, ed. Michael Gordon. NY: St. Martin’s, 1983. 24-37 HQ 535 A59

We use the traditional Chinese family as an example because it is a superb example of the consanguine family system--in which allegiance to blood relations takes precedence over marital relations. Although the focus is on the Chinese family, many of the attitudes and family customs presented here are found throughout East Asia--in the Koreas, in Vietnam, in Japan, etc.
We will focus only on what is called the gentry family--the upper class. Peasants had very few options available to them.





1. The Traditional Family System of China

LK say that this family system "was a strong, stable one, which persisted for 2000 years" (Leslie and Korman 81). These customs can be found several centuries before the time of Christ, and this traditional family pattern did not significantly break down until the late 19th—early 20th century. "The cultural stream from which Chinese family practices derive has as long and distinguished a history as our own" (82). The following system is most characteristic of the Ch’ing dynasty, 1644--1911, and is reflected in Confucian teachings, literature, and law (83).


LK note that "unusually comprehensive data" is available on the Chinese family system; both Oriental and Western scholars have been studying it for centuries (82).


a. The gentry and the peasantry:

This is a basic distinction for understanding the Chinese system. The vast majority of Chinese belonged to the peasant class; they were agriculturists who were very poor--"physical survival was their primary goal" (LK 84).


Criteria for defining the gentry (less than 20% of the population) [LK 83-84]:

(1) they were landlords, receiving income from land they did not cultivate.

(2) they were intellectuals: mastery of knowledge led to social advancement.


NOTE: China had a massive examination system [similar to our civil service] which was theoretically open to everyone, peasant and gentry. Governmental/academic positions were awarded through this system. In reality, it was controlled by the gentry, so few if any peasants ever made it into the system for advancement.


(3) they received income from governmental and academic positions held.

(4) as modernization and industrialization occurred, the gentry became involved in industry, banking, and commerce.




b. The gentry family (LK 84ff):

Superb example of the extended consanguine family system. This family was patriarchal and monogamous.


(1) Two religious ideas are crucial for understanding East Asian family structure:


(a) the belief in ancestor devotion, "which virtually all Chinese practiced. The worship of ancestors was both a major responsibility and a major goal in life. . . One son remained with the parental family to maintain the family burial ground and continue the ancestor worship" (86). Deceased ancestors were believed to still have contact and influence with the world of the living; they could bring blessings or problems. Therefore it was necessary to carry out rituals designed to maintain the favor of the ancestors.


(b) the doctrine of filial piety, which emphasized the subordination of children to parents, and the practice of holding family property in common. The ideal was the large family with common property; while reality often prevented the full realization of this, the belief was still strong enough to control behavior. Many married sons lived in conjugal families, but still sent much of their income back to the ancestral family for ancestor devotion, thus paving the way and fueling their hope that one day they would be able to return to the family and take their place as revered elders.


Michel Cartier notes the political rationale behind acts of filial piety: such acts "must also be read as a code of behavior designed to draw attention to oneself, even to distinguish oneself in the eyes of the public authorities. In effect, marks of filial piety were to a great extent taken into account when selecting and recruiting officials" (History of the Family 1:506).


The typical Chinese family was the stem family. In this arrangement, one of the sons—typically the oldest--brings his bride to live with his parental family, while the other sons leave to make their own living. The oldest son had primary responsibility for carrying out ancestor devotion, for himself and on behalf of his brothers.


(2) Age and sex roles:

"The traditional Chinese family is an excellent example of a consanguine system. Consistent with the large family ideal, prescribed roles for members were laid down in detail [with distinct segregation of sex roles]. Position in the family was all-important; little opportunity was provided for personal idiosyncrasies. What mattered was whether one was an eldest son in a well-to-do family or the newest daughter-in-law [and, relative age position was also important]--not personality characteristics such as whether one was intelligent, nurturant, or what have you" (LK 88).


(a) Infancy: until about 4 years. Since children were highly valued--esp sons--children were treated with affection and kindness. Sometimes among the peasantry, girls were killed or sold.


(b) Childhood: 4 years old--16/17 for gentry girls and all peasant children. In this stage, sex differentiation became distinct, and the severe discipline that marked Chinese life began.


Boys of the gentry class moved to the father’s section of the house and came under his direct tutelage. Formal schooling also began, under a schoolmaster or tutor as strict as the father. "Boys received intense intellectual and physical training, being expected to study--essentially learning by rote--for long hours under harsh conditions. Disobedience, willfulness, and failure to perform brought beatings from father and schoolmaster. The relationship between father and son ceased to be one of warmth and acceptance and became based instead on awe--a mixture of fear and respect. Complete subservience to the father was instilled. . . ." (LK 89). Mothers still had contact with their sons, but they had no authority to intervene in the treatment of the father/schoolmaster; they could only comfort the son.


Girls came under their mother’s care, for preparation for their future as wives and mothers. Formal education was denied to girls. "Girls were increasingly segregated from the outside world and even from the males of their own household. They became aware of their roles as temporary members of the family. In some instances, girls were listed in the family genealogical tables only by nu, the symbol for female, for at marriage they would cease to be members of their fathers’ families and become members of their husbands’ families" (LK 89-90).

A traditional saying in China is: "Daughters are like water that splashes out of the family and cannot be gotten back after marriage" (Celia Dugger, "Modern Asia’s Anomaly: The Girls Who Don’t Get Born," NY Times, national edition 6 May 2001: sec. 4, p. 4).


"Gentry girls were carefully chaperoned because sexual intercourse would damage their chances of marrying satisfactorily" (91).


Peasant boys and girls were simply introduced early into the rigors of physical labor. Their childhood differed markedly from that described above.




(c) Entrance to adulthood: for gentry males only there was this period (known as ch’ing-nien) which lasted from 16/17—about age 30 or until married.


A much more relaxed and gentle period; education would continue, often away from home. "Discipline was relaxed and was replaced by an almost friendly, consultative relationship in which the father trained his son in the exercise of judgment" (LK 90).


During this time the son also would normally find adult vices--drinking, gambling, and sexuality (usually with a servant or prostitute). There was no moral stigma attached to such behaviors, as long as they were done in moderation. If a son’s behavior were profligate, his mother would arrange a marriage for him sooner—to bring him under control lest the family name be shamed




(d) Adulthood: determined by marriage more than by reaching a certain age. Girls, both gentry and peasantry, were married as early as possible, soon after puberty. Gentry males prior to 1800 usually married in their early 30s; during the 19th-c, data show that the average age dropped to the mid-20s, an indication of the beginning of the breakdown of the traditional customs.


Marriage: arranged by the parents. "The son was not consulted, for custom provided that he should not meet his bride until the engagement" (LK 91).


The key element of the ceremony was the transport of the bride to the home of the groom’s parents, where she was introduced to their ancestor devotion; she was eligible also to be listed in his genealogical tables.


"Marriage almost amounted more to the parents taking a daughter-in-law than to the son taking a wife" (LK 93). Thus, after their first night together, the wife rose early in the morning to serve her mother-in-law tea in bed. This began the harshest period of a woman’s life; the new wife came directly under the control of her mother-in-law, who often treated her very harshly--so she would know her position in the new family, a position with no respect. Not even the husband would intervene in the harsh treatment by the mother-in-law. Scholars believe that the highest rates of suicide in traditional China occured among women 17-35 years of age (93). "New brides in these complex families were expected to devote their energies to serving their parents-in-law and pleasing everyone they could" (Patricia Buckley Ebrey [prof at U Illinois], The Inner Quarters: Marriage and the Lives of Women in the Sung Period [Berkeley: UCal P, 1993] 115).


"Beating a wife to death was a serious matter, but beating as a form of discipline was taken for granted. As an example of an official’s talents as a judge, his biographer reported how he dealt with a man accused of beating his wife to death. Suspecting that there had to be more to the story, the official got the man to describe for him what had happened: ‘My mother was yelling at my wife, and my wife was talking back. I couldn’t take it, and in my anger I beat her. By accident I killed her.’ The official assured him that he would not face the death penalty because ‘beating an unfilial daughter-in-law is not the same as beating a wife’" (Ebrey 161).




Affection between the new husband and wife was considered irrelevant. If romantic love developed, that was simply icing on the cake; if it didn’t develop, so what? Keep this in mind: the concept of romantic love as the primary basis for marriage is a very recent innovation in human history. Throughout most of history (until only the past 3-4 centuries), marriage was based on economic reasons or the desire to join prestigious extended families.


By custom the husband and wife slept in the same bed for the first 7 nights, after which they moved to separate beds. The focus of the family remained on consanguine ties, not conjugal—even after marriage, a man’s primary allegiance remained to his parents and other ancestors; thus, "when a man’s parents died, he was expected to show grief that was barely short of suicide. If his wife died, he was ‘expected to show some grief, but never enough to make him forget his filial duties’" (LK 93; citing Francis Hsu, Under the Ancestor’s Shadow, Doubleday 1967).


Michel Cartier says "they would demonstrate a degree of anguish sometimes bordering on madness at the death of a parent" (History of the Family 1:505).


We should not, however, go overboard with this and assume that Chinese wives were always downtrodden and unhappy. Patricia Ebrey shows that upper-class women often became household managers over numerous servants, including concubines (secondary wives). Ancient biographies often celebrate the efficiency and competency of wives. They do so, however, in language we might find. "In praising women as competent household managers, the authors of epitaphs often used the sort of language we might use for efficient secretaries" (119).


"Continuing in the tradition established in the Han [2nd-c BCE--2nd-c CE] by Liu Hsiang with his Biographies of Great Women, many a woman’s biographer emphasized how she gave wise, public-minded advice to her husband, encouraging him in his study, service to the emperor, or charitable acts" (119).


While love might develop, men were embarrassed to make such feelings public. "Even after his wife died, a man would feel most comfortable describing her as a dutiful daughter-in-law to his parents, a competent manager of their household, and a loving mother to their children, but not as the great love of his life or his strongest ally in times of trouble" (152).


The traditional family was monogamous, but both concubinage and prostitution were practiced and accepted.


Note: a concubine is a secondary wife. She is more than a mistress; the concubine does have legal recognition and protection. She does not have all of the rights and privileges of a full wife, but she does have some. Concubines often came to live in the home with the husband and his first wife. Concubinage has been practiced in cultures around the world, not just in Asia. Those familiar with the Old Testament may remember the mention of concubines in ancient Israel.


LK give 2 reasons for concubinage and prostitution--one, the necessity to have sons, to meet obligations to the ancestors and to ensure one’s own future position as an ancestor; two, it offered spontaneity and emotional freedom in the otherwise highly structured society. "Thus, concubinage and prostitution provided safety valves that drained off emotions that otherwise might have threatened the stability of the family. Neither concubinage nor prostitution was disapproved on moral grounds. Only when they threatened the stability of the family were they regarded as harmful" (LK 96). The concubine came to live at the man’s household and was under the supervision of the wife; she had no share in the family income; her children were legitimate but had limited rights of inheritance unless the wife bore no sons.


"Without doubt, the most serious source of friction between upper-class husbands and wives was, from the wives’ point of view, their husbands’ doting on their concubines, and from the husbands’ point of view, their wives’ jealousy when they acted in this normal way. Naturally, not all men had concubines, but they were a common feature of the multi-generational households of the better off. Among members of the educated class who left written records, it seems to have been extremely common for men who lived to forty or more to take at least one concubine. Men disinclined to take concubines attracted more notice than those who kept several" (Ebrey 165).




Status of wives, conclusion: "Legally they were virtually powerless: they could not over-rule their husbands on any family matters, nor did they have a right to punish their husbands or expel them. They could not even legally just give up and leave. Rather, women had ways--tactics perhaps--to make the best of their situations within these limits. Margery Wolf once described the successful Chinese woman as one who had ‘learned to depend largely on herself while appearing to lean on her father, husband, and her son’" (Ebrey 171; citing Wolf, Women and the Family in Rural Taiwan [Stanford UP, 1972, 41).




Divorce was permitted in the Chinese system--by mutual consent, by husband’s initiation, or by order of the authorities.


Remarriage:

---frequent among peasants due to economic necessity.


---freely allowed for gentry men. Sometimes a concubine was elevated to the status of wife.


--remarriage by divorced or widowed women was frowned upon. A remarriage of a widow could be blocked by the first husband’s family if they did not approve. The widow could also not take property into a marriage (LK 97).




(e) Old age: from about age 55 till death. "Oldsters, as the closest living contacts with ancestors, received humble respect and esteem from the younger family members and had first claim on the family’s resources" (LK 94).






2. The transitional Chinese family

In the 1800s, after China’s isolation from the outside world was broken, Westernization and industrialization brought changes to the traditional family.


a. Westernization:

(1) individualism rather than the welfare of the family.

(2) treatment of women as companions and almost equals.

(3) political freedom--the individual controlling his/her own life.


b. Industrialization: "With the growth of cities and factory employment, single persons, married couples, and nuclear families could live apart from their extended families permanently. Separation of the kinship and occupational structures weakened parental authority; income and status came to depend more on one’s occupation than on one’s family ties; industrialization provided new sources of wealth greater than those from the old agricultural system; and people began to value their individual interests over their extended family obligations" (LK 99).




3. The contemporary Chinese family

"Change has been under way for over a century and has been complicated recently by the family and political policies of the Communist government. How much effect and what kind of effect such policies will ultimately have is a matter of debate" (LK 99). Nevertheless, certain trends are evident:


a. Contemporary trends:

(1) Changing status of women: legally they have full inheritance rights with men. Women are less segregated with their mothers in childhood. Education has become available to all Chinese and is usually co-educational.


(2) Development of a youth culture: industrialization forced individualism, as youth had to make decisions on their own. The breakup of the tightly-knit extended family has brought problems for the aged, as the doctrine of filial piety to the elders has seen disintegration.


Time magazine reported August 6, 2001, that "the coddled offspring of the one-child policy are reaching adulthood, and many show little sense of family obligation. ‘They’re rebelling against all sense of family,’ says sociologist Li Yinhe. In a once unthinkable break with Confucian tradition, many refuse to care for their elders. China’s greying population is expected to peak in 2040, and there is no mechanism in place to finance its welfare" (Hannah Beech, "China’s Lifestyle Choice," 32).


A similar trend is occurring in Japan, where multiple-generation families living together, with the harsh relationship between young women with their in-laws, is diminishing. Stephanie Strom reports in the NY Times, "The will of young people to leave their parents’ home has been driven by many things--the lure of cities, the desire of more women to work outside the house and the independence for both young and old that comes with greater wealth--but one motivator seems stronger than all the others.

‘The main reason for this is that young women don’t want to be oyome-san [daughters-in-law] any more,’ said Shiro Yamazaki, who oversees government programs for the elderly at the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare" ("On the Wane in Japan: Slavish Daughters-in-Law," 22 April 2001: Sec. 1, p. 3).


Recognize, however, that the tradition dies slowly and is still found today—even at times among Asian immigrants to the US.




(3) Romantic love as the basis for marriage is replacing parental arrangement as the basis for marriage. As a result, there are more and more unmarried adults of both genders in the cities; in the traditional system, marriage was considered so important that not to be married was considered perverse.


(4) Increased rates of divorce, adultery, suicide, and illegitimacy. In the past 5 years [since 1998], China has been considering strict new laws which would make adultery illegal (allowing victims to sue both the errant partner and the lover for punitive damages) and force waiting periods of up to 3 years before divorce was permitted. See Leslie Pappas, "China’s New Family Values," Newsweek 24 August 1998:36; Liz Sly, "Adultery rises in China as economy changes," News & Observer 24 October 1998:13A. Communist policies had already outlawed concubinage.




b. Communist policies have legalized many of the trends just mentioned, first in the Marriage Law of May 1950 (less than 8 months after the establishment of the Communist gov’t) and the new version of that law on Jan 1, 1981. Principles:


(1) monogamy without concubinage (the latter is now outlawed, due to the increasing illegitimacy rates).


(2) free choice of spouse.


(3) equal inheritance rights.


(4) protection of children’s rights.


(5) divorce by mutual consent or on insistence by either spouse. In the traditional system, divorce could be by mutual consent of both families--not of the couple themselves, or on the husband’s initiative, or by order of the authorities.


(6) birth control policy: in 1982 the population of China reached 1 billion; in ‘95 it was estimated at 1 billion, 218 million [Information Please Almanac 1996, 167]. Compare: estimates of the total population of the earth in 1850 were approx 1 billion.


1971: instituted a policy limiting urban couples to 2 children and rural couples to 3.


1979: recognizing that the ‘71 policy was insufficient, China embarked on its "one-child-per-family" policy.


---typically, couples wanting to get pregnant had to get a permit from the local government and the woman’s employer. "Women can be turned down if their company or neighborhood had exceeded its quota of births for the year. Any couples who dare to have a child without permits, or--worse--an illegal second child, can face heavy financial penalties, job loss or, in some cases, police detention" (Elizabeth Rosenthal [NY Times], "China appears to be loosening harsh controls on births," News & Observer 1 Nov ‘98:19A).


---educational programs, peer pressure, and economic incentives were offered to those who comply. Couples sign a "one-child" pledge to receive these; if a 2nd child is born, the benefits must be repaid.


---abortion is freely available and encouraged, sometimes coerced, after the first child.


---traditional customs are hard to break, especially in the rural areas. The one-child-per-family policy has resulted in a noticeable increase in female infanticide.


The concept of filial piety made it the sons’ responsibility to care for parents. In the patriarchal culture, "the daughter’s responsibility to care for her parents largely ends at marriage, while the son’s lasts for life." "The spread of ultrasound technology in these societies, with their strong preferences for sons, has made it easy to find out the sex of a child before birth and to abort unwanted daughters. Although officially outlawed, the practice is widespread (Celia Dugger, "Modern Asia’s Anomaly: The Girls Who Don’t Get Born," NY Times 6 May 2001:Sec. 4, p. 4). This is widespread in India as well, acc to this article.


This has led to a skewed gender balance: "there are now 117 boys born for every 100 girls" (Hannah Beech, "China’s Lifestyle Choice," Time 6 Aug 2001:32).


Faced with widespread female infanticide, the growing choice of urban couples to have no children, the fact that China’s population is expected to start declining in 2042, and a rapidly aging population without a strong governmental welfare support, China has in very recent years begun experimenting with loosening the harsh controls on birth; so far this is on a very limited basis. Some counties have done away with the necessity for permits before pregnancy and with the quotas stipulating the number of permitted births/year.

China still desires one child for urban families and two for rural, "but officials say they now hope to achieve that end not by fiat and coerced abortions, but through a broader women’s-health system that discourages large families through patient education, contraceptive choice and heavy taxes for couples who choose to have another child" (Elizabeth Rosenthal [NY Times], "China appears to be loosening harsh controls on births," News & Observer 1 Nov ‘98:19A).






ARRANGED MARRIAGE--EVEN IN THE U.S.

Arranged marriages, while not as prominent in the contemporary world as in the past, are still found today, even in the United States.


1. Paula Span, "What’s Love Got to Do With It?" The Washington Post Magazine 23 February 2003: on the appeal of arranged marriages in the US.


2. Joseph Berger, "Choosing Their Clothes, but Not Their Husbands," NY Times 28 Nov 2004, sec. 1, p. 30:


By all appearances, Ashrat Khwajazadah and Naheed Mawjzada are thoroughly modern American women.

Long-haired and dark-eyed, they spurn the headscarves and modest outfits customarily worn by Afghan women, preferring hip-hugging slacks. Both of them are in their early 20's and both of them have taken a route still somewhat controversial among Afghans in Flushing, Queens - going to college to pursue professions. Ms. Khwajazadah studied speech pathology at Queens College and Ms. Mawjzada majors in political science at Adelphi University. Both also defy the ideal of a reticent Afghan womanhood, with Ms. Mawjzada speaking up forcefully when men talk politics at the dinner table.

But there are incongruities. Both of them, by design, have never dated. Like most young women in their Afghan enclave in Flushing, they are waiting for their parents to pick their spouses.

"It’s been drilled into your head since you were a little girl: 'Don't talk with guys, don't ruin your reputation, everyone will gossip about you,'". said Ms. Khwajazadah, a high-spirited womah who came here as a 2-year-old with her refugee parents. Nevertheless. she added, "I’m happy with my decision."


The article adds that "it is not uncommon for girls to be engaged as young as 13 and be married by 16." There are also other problems for girls who don’t follow the tradition. Manizha Naderi, director of Women for Afghan Women and 28 years old, "was married at 16 to a man she chose on her own. Her mother and grandmother did not speak to her for 10 years.

"My mother still tells me she can’t look at people because they know her daughter was married in this way," she said.




3. Richard Bernstein, "A Runaway Personifies Germany’s ‘Multi-Kulti’ Debate," NY Times 19 Dec 2004, sec. 1, p. 6, reports on an 18-year-old in Germany who escaped from her Turkish-born parents because "they were threatening to kill her unless she agreed to marry a man from Turkey whom she had never met." She is now living in a gov’t supported shelter. The shelter has helped more than 1000 girls since 1986.


***"The issue of ethnic Turkish Germans being forced to marry against their will is part of a heated debate in Germany and across Europe. A central question in the debate is whether European countries, with their Christian majorities and democratic traditions, can absorb large populations with very different and, in European eyes, retrograde customs?"
__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 10:35 AM
Bastet's Avatar
ProAzn Master
Points: 5,750, Level: 48
Points: 5,750, Level: 48 Points: 5,750, Level: 48 Points: 5,750, Level: 48
Level up: 50%, 200 Points needed
Level up: 50% Level up: 50% Level up: 50%
Activity: 8%
Activity: 8% Activity: 8% Activity: 8%
 
Chinese Zodiac Sign:
Zodiac Sign: Pisces
Join Date: Feb 2008
Ethnicity: European Mutt
Location: Vegas
Gender: Female
Posts: 274
Cash: 22,935
Thanks: 10
Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts
My Mood:
Rep Power: 446
Bastet has a reputation beyond reputeBastet has a reputation beyond reputeBastet has a reputation beyond reputeBastet has a reputation beyond reputeBastet has a reputation beyond reputeBastet has a reputation beyond reputeBastet has a reputation beyond reputeBastet has a reputation beyond reputeBastet has a reputation beyond reputeBastet has a reputation beyond reputeBastet has a reputation beyond repute
how sad that the concept of love is so new to us historically.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 03:29 PM
Biker Dude's Avatar
2 Wheels Spinning
Points: 11,483, Level: 70
Points: 11,483, Level: 70 Points: 11,483, Level: 70 Points: 11,483, Level: 70
Level up: 71%, 167 Points needed
Level up: 71% Level up: 71% Level up: 71%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Chinese Zodiac Sign:
Zodiac Sign: Libra
Join Date: May 2007
Ethnicity: Asian
Location: US
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,142
Cash: 38,872
Thanks: 62
Thanked 43 Times in 36 Posts
My Mood:
Rep Power: 0
Biker Dude has a reputation beyond reputeBiker Dude has a reputation beyond reputeBiker Dude has a reputation beyond reputeBiker Dude has a reputation beyond reputeBiker Dude has a reputation beyond reputeBiker Dude has a reputation beyond reputeBiker Dude has a reputation beyond reputeBiker Dude has a reputation beyond reputeBiker Dude has a reputation beyond reputeBiker Dude has a reputation beyond reputeBiker Dude has a reputation beyond repute
many points still true today. much holds true in hindu culture with more drastic measures like honor killings.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 04:22 PM
Girl Got Game
Points: 13,005, Level: 74
Points: 13,005, Level: 74 Points: 13,005, Level: 74 Points: 13,005, Level: 74
Level up: 75%, 245 Points needed
Level up: 75% Level up: 75% Level up: 75%
Activity: 5%
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
Chinese Zodiac Sign:
Zodiac Sign: Sagittarious
Join Date: May 2007
Ethnicity: white/native american indian/hispanic
Location: USA
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,905
Cash: 197,718
Thanks: 89
Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts
My Mood:
Rep Power: 0
Siren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant future
this made my brain hurt wha?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 05:39 PM
AZN AZN is offline
ProAzn Apprentice
Points: 66,054, Level: 100
Points: 66,054, Level: 100 Points: 66,054, Level: 100 Points: 66,054, Level: 100
Level up: 2%, 0 Points needed
Level up: 2% Level up: 2% Level up: 2%
Activity: 62%
Activity: 62% Activity: 62% Activity: 62%
 
Chinese Zodiac Sign:
Zodiac Sign: Aquarius
Join Date: May 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 0
Cash: 0
Thanks: 398
Thanked 353 Times in 303 Posts
My Mood:
Rep Power: 0
AZN is infamous around these partsAZN is infamous around these partsAZN is infamous around these partsAZN is infamous around these partsAZN is infamous around these partsAZN is infamous around these partsAZN is infamous around these partsAZN is infamous around these partsAZN is infamous around these partsAZN is infamous around these partsAZN is infamous around these parts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siren View Post
this made my brain hurt wha?
Was it the left or right hemisphere? haha.

Just playing...

.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 05:43 PM
Girl Got Game
Points: 13,005, Level: 74
Points: 13,005, Level: 74 Points: 13,005, Level: 74 Points: 13,005, Level: 74
Level up: 75%, 245 Points needed
Level up: 75% Level up: 75% Level up: 75%
Activity: 5%
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
Chinese Zodiac Sign:
Zodiac Sign: Sagittarious
Join Date: May 2007
Ethnicity: white/native american indian/hispanic
Location: USA
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,905
Cash: 197,718
Thanks: 89
Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts
My Mood:
Rep Power: 0
Siren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant futureSiren has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZN_North View Post
Was it the left or right hemisphere? haha.

Just playing...

.
lol....jerk...
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:57 PM.



Contact Us  |  ProAzn.com  |  Archive  |  Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios
Inactive Reminders By Mished.co.uk and FTP-Anime.com